What can we do to stop competition? Options

[Dmik]

If you think this is a stupid topic delete it i just had an idea.

Anyway i just thought we should have a topic completely on answers to stopping dilution and the media turning it into a competition. So if you have any ideas on what we could do about them post them here or anywhere else if there is already something like this (in that case delete this one and tell me about the other).

(sorry if its not making any sense I can't really think right now)

[Google Bot]

[ionos]

Unless we find a way to destroy society (I suppose several E bombs would work ^^), i seriously doubt we can do anything about it.

You are talking about fighting big corporations and the inextinguishable desire of wealth and power of most human beings.

Live your life, forget about the rest
(in this situation that is)

[Dmik]

I'm not going to forget about the rest because too many people have done this with bad consequences think about global warming we know about it we know if we let it go on were sckrewed and yet we still choose to let it slide (sure were doing small things but we should be doing bigger) and if all of us think "let it slide" we might as well just stop parkour and learn it the way people will in the future if parkour becomes like an Xgame.

But to get on topic i sort of have an idea if a few traceurs that know the traditional way of learning parkour could start a small company or advertise parkour in the way we think it should it might make a difference in the newer traceurs of the future.

[ionos]

This is why i added "in that situation that is" below the sentence "live your life, forget about the rest".

You can stay true to parkour, and explain it to others the way it is supposed to be ; not listening to what society wants it to be.

To sum up, you would be the old wise man living in the mountain and staying true to < insert martial art>.

I understand the idea of starting some kind of small company. I believe this is supposed to be David Belle's big project. This means that all we can do is wait. In the end, nobody, except for him, or those to whom he gave his permission, has the right to do it.

Another solution would be to stop spreading parkour using the medias. However, this would require the mental strenght to say "no thanks" when some newspaper or TV channel asks you if you would accept to talk about it.

edit : spelling

[Hebertiste]

It is about unity of philosophy and ethics. It is about community of people, of philosophy and ethics.

It is about standing FOR common, collective values :

_ people helping and sharing with other people.
_ people preparing to help themselves or other people.
_ practice for self-growth, priceless sensations and satisfaction, and self-recognition.
_ safe and healthy practice that respects the body on the long run.
_local communities slowly but patiently growing and willing to make parkour training more accessible to all.
_ local communities working seriously on spreading parkour the right way for the benefit of other human beings.
_ local communities continuously striving to restore a valuable image of parkour that strongly respect its original purpose and philosophy.


It is about standing AGAINST competitive-commercial values and ambitions that are individual values of few people within the parkour community :

_ people against people because of what is at stake people preparing against others to beat them.
_ practice for victory, money or fame
unhealthy practice abusing the body on the short run.
_ local or international companies impatiently willing to make parkour a successful entertaining TV show.
_ local or international companies working on spreading parkour by any means for their own benefit.
_local or international companies trying to use the image of parkour and its original philosophy but ready to modify and alter it if necessary.


My suggestions :

All practitioners that are anti-competition in parkour could add it in their signature :
"Parkour is not competitive".

A short general anti-competition statement could be written and agreed on collectively, so it is similar to every community worldwide, even when translated in every local language.
That text will be put in a very visible way on each homepage of every parkour community website that truly stands against competition.

All people against competition in parkour making new videos could add this statement as an introduction to their video.

A longer general anti-competition statement, giving more details and arguments about why the community opposes competition in parkour, could be written and agreed on collectively, so it is similar to every community worldwide, even when translated in every local language.
Similarly, that text will be put in a very visible way as a very important article of every parkour community website that truly stands against competition.
Such a statement would be especially used attention to new practitioners and greatly participate in their "parkour education", for them to understand why parkour is a non-competitive discipline, why such a specificity is a great part of what makes the discipline's philosophy special, genuine, respectful, healthy and valuable.

If the worldwide community doesn't build something clear, strong and healthy together, collectively, and NOW, people of commercial interests will use this weak point to slowly introduce their own values and plans and make us comply to them in a slow, seductive rhetorical process. Actually, a process of DILUTION and DIVISION.
They are already being very active in this direction, NOW and for a long time, planning and trying to prepare our minds, our outlooks, opinions, perception and expectations to fit, step by step, to their goals;
To have us forget or give up the original essence of parkour :

NON-competitive.

They will not give up those plans, because it's a huge money potential to them.
We should not give up our original philosophy, because it is all what our true potential is about.

Now I'm thinking of all good guys and girls worldwide that are striving to build healthy communities for the collective and individual good, on the long run, regardless of money or fame.
And I think how fast all this great work would be almost TOTALLY destroyed because of a small handful of money-driven people pretending their have the best intentions and that their plans are best for parkour.

Again, don't get fooled people !
Making money teaching parkour, if you have the competence to do so, is all right.
Don't let them sell an even more distorted image of parkour, selling it is their only true competence.

Their arguments are just like a Trojan horse : it's looks like safe, looks like a nice gift.
All of a sudden, doors open and destroy everything from within, taking over the whole community.
We have to let them understand we KNOW it's not a gift and we know they're inside and that we keep an eye on them and that we'll counterstrike if they ever attempt to open up those doors.

We simply want to live peacefully with and for values that we cherish and strongly reject those we don't. We don't need and don't want competitions in parkour. We must now state it clear, everywhere it's possible, and to do it now.






PS : English is my second language, it may be awkwardly written at some point;

[TK17]

I'm going to draft a copy of that statement that Hebertiste recommended ... not because I think I could do it better than anybody else, just to get the ball rolling so people can discuss it and say what's good and what's bad. It should be up sometime today.

In this thread, or a thread of its own?

[Trickstar]

just try to talk to some people who actually like competition, i'm sure there are some on parkour.net, and try to understand what are the reasons. then analyze the reasons, and compare them to your own reasons why you don't like competition. then write an article about the differences, and show that the reasons for liking competition are good reasons, but not really necessary in certain conditions, then explain these conditions and talk about how to achieve them.

and then live the way you talk, being an example is always better than to convincing, better than stating it as a fact, and far better than persuading.

[Alistair]

Erwan's right, we need to take action as a community, we can all do our bit on a local level as well of course but unfortunatley sitting back and saying we can't do anything will just lead to the worst case scenario becoming reality. All that we can do, we must do, not only do I want to preserve true parkour for myself, I wish to preserve it for and share it with others free from any dilution/distortion. Is this not something we all should desire, to preserve the integrity of our discipline so that future practicioners might enjoy it in its purest form as well?

[Hebertiste]

TK17, go ahead, you have some talent to write for sure. Just make it simple.
And yes, that's the thread.

[TK17]

Okay, so, I imagine this as a banner or image of some kind that sites can post up, on their homepage or main page, so that's why the title is what it is.

FIRST DRAFT - Positive comments welcome, but criticisms are even more welcome.


This community supports PARKOUR, not COMPETITON - Run Without Rivals

The members of this community stand firmly against the idea of organized parkour competition. Our reasons:

1. No traceur can truly be better than any other, because part of what makes a traceur is his willingness to help those below him reach and surpass his own level.

2. The skills of parkour cannot be accurately judged in competition. The fastest traceur is not always the safest; the traceur with the prettiest technique is not always the most efficient; the strongest traceur may not have the best endurance. Any attempt to judge one aspect of parkour sacrifices the rest and loses the meaning of the whole.

3. Parkour is a lifelong discipline, and the human body requires conditioning and preparation to practice it safely. Competition encourages the unready to sacrifice their health for early victories, and leads traceurs to unbalance their training and focus only on the specific skills needed to win, instead of overall strength and durability.

4. The benefits of competition - innovation, motivation, and public attention - are against the philosophy of parkour, which states that the simplest methods are the best, that the drive to train should come from within, and that traceurs should not perform to show off for a crowd.

5. Parkour belongs to the traceurs - to the local communities, to the teams and the friends, and to the human race as a whole, NOT to the corporations, the sponsors, the media, and the people sitting at home to watch.


Competition is not inevitable - it is just another obstacle! Support true parkour, keep our discipline free!

---------------------------------------------


Please tell me what you think. I feel like 5 points is enough, so if I missed something it would be better to try to combine it with what's already there, rather than trying to add another point.

[Hebertiste]

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_brit...icle2472154.ece

[thebutton]

TK17, maybe a point about parkour being abou setting oneself CHALLENGES instead of COMPETING against others would be a good point. in the other topic soilwork talks of a 5km course, something which would really test a mans strength & spirit, would turn it into a battle against onself rather than a fight with others.

the last point can best be summed up in db's words as 'parkour belongs to those who live it, not those who live from it'...perhaps it should be the #1 point.

think this is a really useful topic, gonna post it up on scpk and see what we can contribute

[Hebertiste]

That is a great start TK17 !
If you don't mind I used your version as a basis for mine, trying to improve yours. Of course, you can do the same with mine ;-). In the end, we'll find a final version we'll all agree on.
I don't know how many communities will agree and post it, we'll see.

I made it what seems to me a more logical sequence.
For each part, I started with what we stand against, to conclude with what we stand for.
It sounds more coherent to me that way.
I made it only 4 important ponts, however made each of them more detailed, maybe others would see something shorter, we could reduce it.
Last, English being my second language, it might need some rectifications to fully make sense .


This community supports PARKOUR, not COMPETITION - Run Without Rivals

The members of this community stand firmly against the idea of organized parkour competition. Our reasons:

1.
We don't believe in elites.
We don't believe in any form of selection among practitioners.
We don't believe in the necessity of any form of hierarchy of performance among practitioners.
We believe to be "the best" doesn't mean anything in parkour, because winning or losing don't mean anything in parkour philosophy.
We do not accept such a drive as part of the parkour philosophy.

Instead, we believe the drive to train should always and only come from within.
We strive to be stronger for ourselves and others, not against people, but with and for others.
Therefore, we reject and disregard any form of rivalry between practitioners.
Instead, we value mutual respect and solidarity in making progress as individuals and as a community.

2.
We believe it stands against the philosophy of parkour to compete to win or earn anything that is not part of parkour values, such as medals, prizes, trophies, money, fame, recognition, or glory.
Same goes about showing off for a crowd.

Instead, we look for priceless and beneficial outcomes to our actions.
We also look for benefits we all can share.
We are givers, not takers.

3. Competition encourages the unready to sacrifice their health for early victories, or to reach a ranking that has no true meaning.
It forces elite competitors to constantly and repeatedly endanger their most precious good, health, because of obsession and obligation of victory, and whatever is at stake as a direct consequence of it, including money, rank or status, pride, and also professional or sponsoring contracts and profitable commercial deals.
It leads competitive practitioners to unbalance their training and focus only on the specific skills needed to win, leading to chronic injuries.
Despite official denials, doping is most of the time involved in every level of competition, that money is involved or not.
We believe the physical consequences of competing at high level goes against the philosophy of parkour which emphasizes on moderation and the necessity of enduring.

Instead, parkour is a humble, patient and lifelong discipline, and the human body requires incremental conditioning to ensure its resistance and longevity.
Moderation is a truly important value of parkour and an indispensable quality in order to preserve oneself and for the body to endure.
Therefore, we reject whatever goes against moderation and that impairs the body.

4. Parkour doesn't belong to corporations, sponsors, medias, and people sitting at home to watch.
We believe we must not accept activities and plans that are abusively called parkour, that misuse its name and hijack its image to draw public and medias attention to something that is NOT parkour, despite the resistance of the majority of the community against such intentions.

Instead, we affirm parkour is a non-competitive discipline that belong to all practitioners, to the local communities, to the teams and friends, and to the human race as a whole.
We believe we must stand together against ambitions that do not reflect the original philosophy of parkour and that are disrespectful to the parkour philosophy and the parkour community.



Competition is not inevitable - it is just another obstacle! Support original parkour, keep our discipline free!

[giant]

I have made a topic on the Norwegian forum asking how people feel, if they agree we will post the final statement on our site, I also asked them to post here if they came up with things to change on the statement.

[noxteryn]

Competition is not inevitable - it is just another obstacle!

:yes!:

[Dmik]

I'm hope this topic has helped at least a little bit to stopping dilution/distortion and I hope that TK17 and Herbertiste do finish a final copy that will help stop dilution.

P.S. TK17 and Herbertiste if you finish the copy can i copy and paste it somewhere or use it to help some newbies to parkour?

[TK17]

Dmik, this topic has provided us with a focal point that's been VERY useful, thank you so much.

And of course, once a finalized copy is made, you can use it however you like ... it will belong to everyone.

[Dmik]

just glad to help :-D . Awesome TK17 thanks.

[beardedyoungman]

Maybe it would be best that communities make one them selves if they want something different and just post it here for opinions.
Just because the topic is complex and we wouldn't want to get into debating words :-)
Both seem great, I like the more detail as it gives more feeling behind why. But the more detail the more important it will be to have a little brief also like Hebertist mentioned. Emphases on compassion towards newcomers is definitely what's most important in it because they're the ones who'll suffer the most from this. It's so great to see younger people grow as they adopt parkour philosophies to training and it will be sad the day when they just won't listen or give them selves room to grow or when they only come to meets because they expect something of you, not to share and have fun. As far as I've noticed parkour practitioners in general don't want competition, look at all the signatures when that parcouring thing came up. So really I doubt it's inevitable but parkour-like competition to take advantage of the "fad" I think is inevitable. Parkour doesn't seem like a fad though, it started with too much depth and intention(escape and reach)

Here's to this thread inspiring parkour communities around the world to defend the values parkour develops when your trainings not focused on material gain :-D

[Dmik]

Well it hasn't inspired many people yet.